Comedy Writer Sabeeh Jameel Talks Kimmel Kerfufle and Juggalo Imams
By Romen Basu Borsellino | 29 Sep, 2025

Late night comedy writer Sabeeh Jameel joins us to talk about free speech, South Asian representation in entertainment, and why comedians are unhappy.

Sabeeh Jameel in character as his original creating Juggalo Imam

Romen (00:01)

Hello, we are here with Sabeeh Jameel. a good friend of mine. We have written for A Little Late with Lilly Singh, which was the 1 30 a.m. Late night show on NBC. It lasted a couple seasons before they realized that people don’t watch as much TV at 1:30 a.m. as we might like.

Sabeeh is my guest today because in addition to him just doing a lot of cool stuff in his life that he will tell us about including writing and producing, there is a lot going on right now in the late night world, which is where he is an expert. So without further ado, Sabeeh welcome.

Sabeeh (00:43)

Thank you so much for having me, Romen. That’s a much bigger intro than I was expecting, but I’m always grateful for any platitudes you have for me.

Romen (00:53)

Let’s start by talking about something that has been plastered all over the news, which is Jimmy Kimmel, course. So there are, guess, a number of moving parts to this. So for those unfamiliar, let me do my best to lay it out:

Jimmy Kimmel did a bit where he pretty much made fun of Donald Trump for not actually seeming all that upset about Charlie Kirk being assassinated. in the same sort of monologue, Kimmel also made a reference to MAGA supporters trying to blame this shooting on the other side and spin it as if the person who did it was not MAGA. Now, there’s, that’s up for debate.

But what we do know is that Kimmel was kicked off the air. First, the affiliates Sinclair Broadcasting and another one I think was Nexstar said “we’re not going to run him.”

Then ABC said, we’re just gonna take him off the air altogether, is late night show at 11:30, Jimmy Kimmel Live. But before all of this, the head of the FCC, Brendan Carr, Trump’s appointee, said something to the tune of, if ABC doesn’t play ball with us…

Sabeeh (02:08)

Brendan Carr was on like a podcast, I think the same day, a right wing podcast basically saying “we can either do this the easy way or the hard way.” And everyone said, wow, that was like a mafioso threat. That’s like something out of Goodfellas. The main thing I want to fact check about that, I don’t think anyone at any point in Goodfellas says we can do this the easy way or the hard way, ⁓ but it very much was a mafioso threat.

The only reference I can think of that uses that line is a Boondocks episode.

Romen (02:34)

I’m half Italian. So, I, I’m sorry to say I did kind of relate to the line. I was like, yeah, sounds cool. And then I remembered he’s the bad guy here. so then ABC listened, right? They decided to do it, what the easy way. And they announced that Kimmel that night, they were like, he’s off the air tonight. In fact, he’s off the air indefinitely.

As far as I can say, what happened next is there was a massive uproar from largely liberals ⁓ saying, can you do this? This is a violation of free speech. The government is effectively now deciding what’s on the air and what’s not ⁓ based on what the person’s viewpoint is, what Kimmel’s viewpoint is, and because he’s criticizing Trump. Would you say that’s a fair assessment?

Sabeeh (03:20)

Yeah, mean, liberals and also Ted Cruz and Ben Shapiro. think a lot of people who are like, you know, First Amendment advocates sort of came out. I mean, the way Ted Cruz and Ben Shapiro kind of phrase it, wasn’t like some sort of like high, high and mighty belief in the First Amendment. They were like, well, if they can do this, then they’re going to come after us next. It was very sort of a self preservation argument them.

Romen (03:41)

That’s a great take. That jumped out at me too. That Ted Cruz wasn’t saying this is right or wrong. He was simply saying this could hurt us, personally. Which is like, I think at this point, if you’re pro-Kimmel, you’ll take what you can get in terms of support, but like, that’s not really the argument that we should be rallying behind is, this could affect me personally, rather than this is objectively wrong and possibly a violation of the Constitution.

Sabeeh (04:08)

Yes, I agree with that, but I think when Ted Cruz and Ben Shapiro are your side of the argument, that helps a case against Sinclair and ABC and Nexstar thinking we might be on the losing side of this. that’s I think that was sort of like a turning point where eventually ABC, you know, sort of caved and then this week was also a game of chicken with Nexstar and Sinclair and then they also eventually caved and sort of everything sort of at a stasis. back to the way things were. but I mean, I don’t know what it means for like the future of Late Night on. Like, you know, mean, you know, a common take everywhere was like if they can go after Kimmel, then like, you know, who else is safe?

Romen (04:49)

Totally. one question I had, something that really struck me with the Kimmel thing was I was pleasantly surprised with the extent to which people came out and really made a big deal of this and made a fuss of this and were hammering it nonstop. Public sentiment was there to support Kimmel. Why have we not seen that to the same degree with other things lately? I mean, Trump has been in office since January at this point.

Tell me if I’m wrong, but I can’t really think of a time in which the public spoke up and said this is a violation of free speech to that degree and it made a difference. I mean, we’ve seen protesters get sent to jail right on college campuses for expressing their free speech and there was not that sort of a public backlash. Why this?

Sabeeh (05:41)

I mean, I think just the blatant nature of it. had the head of the FCC on a right wing podcast one day saying like, you know, I’m going to use government levers to silence free speech within a couple hours. You see the effect of it. I think a lot of other cases in this day and age, know, people are, you know, people getting arrested for protesting on college campuses, people getting arrested for like overstaying their visas. People like “well, you know, there was like this gray area like colleges have a right to police their campuses. If you’re not here legally, that’s sort of on you.” The fact that this was such a one-in-one, very obvious thing that anyone, no matter how political or apolitical you are, it was a very easy thing for you to track. And also I think the target, mean, Kimmel is not a Colbert or a John Stewart type, this sort of warrior for the left wing.

A lot of people were like, you know, “I can’t believe you’re making me defend Jimmy Kimmel.” The nature of what he said, wasn’t like some huge, crazy, insane attack on Charlie Kirk or, you know, even like Trump, it was sort of just like this guy’s like life is sort of being weaponized by one side was essentially the, the distillation of what he was saying. And if anything, you know, when he came back on air, like he was literally in tears, like you know, mourning this guy like the Charlie Kirk figure and people were still trying to distort what he was saying. I think really just it was more just it was a very simple, straightforward case of someone’s free speech is being suppressed and you know, the person who is being suppressed is not really like on one camp or the other. They’re just sort of being vilified.

Romen (07:22)

So it sounds like, and I agree with you, think that’s a fair take, but I guess it sounds like the FCC aspect of it is what made the difference, right? That you had the Trump administration figure saying we can do this the easy way or the hard way before it happened. Because let me play out an alternative scenario. Let’s say hypothetically speaking, FCC never says that out loud, which frankly, if they were smart, they would have like tried to back channel, which is still illegal. But if they’re going to break the law anyway, it’s kind of funny that they did it so blatantly. But let’s say hypothetically speaking, that part doesn’t happen, but Sinclair does come out and say, we control, let’s say 20 % of the airwaves, we’re not gonna put Kimmel on. And then ABC says, we’re gonna follow suit. This is the free market at play, right? These are just corporations saying we do or don’t wanna do business with these people. Is that objectionable? Do you think we would have seen that sort of a pushback?

Sabeeh (08:18)

I mean, we have that case study. It’s called the Stephen Colbert case study. That is essentially what played out in the CBS case. They didn’t say it out loud, but they had just, right before saying the late show is canceled as a franchise, it’s gone for good. But you know in that case it was that they made the financial argument they didn’t make an argument where it was like about like it was like a policing free speech or anything like that.

Romen (08:44)

For those who may not be as familiar with the Stephen Colbert piece, from my understanding, Paramount, who owns CBS, had just paid out a settlement. And then Colbert came on air, made fun of them for it. And then the next day it was announced that his show was being pulled off the air permanently starting in May. And on top of that, Paramount, the parent corporation, was trying to get a merger through that needed the Trump administration’s approval.

So it felt like because the Trump administration was not happy with Colbert, then his bosses wanted to fire him so that they could make a financial deal.

Sabeeh (09:24)

Yeah, and you know, I think if ABC had made that same play, if they said we’re putting Kimmel off the year indefinitely because late night has been steadily declining in viewership and it’s not as profitable as it used to be, people might have turned and sort of ⁓ batted an eye towards it. It might have just sort of been pushed under the rug. It’s like, it’s like another ⁓ Colbert thing. And then the conversation would just be, this is just what’s happening with the genre of television now.

But because Brendan Carr opened his mouth and sort of said the playbook out loud, that’s why this became such a turning point.

Romen (10:01)

So that is something that frankly terrifies me. think what you’re saying is if the Trump administration had been like 5% smarter, if they had just not made a dumb, sloppy mistake, then they could have potentially gotten away with kicking Kimmel off the air and they could potentially correct that mistake and do it more and more in the future, right?

Sabeeh (10:23)

Yeah, and you know, we’re still relatively early in this administration, like the fact that, you know, all these plays have sort of been acted on, like within like the first year, like setting aside, like, you know, we have like three more years of this, no one, I mean, you ask anyone, where does this go from here? Like, we don’t know.

Romen (10:43)

Kimmel, when he came back, basically said that he’s sort of a drop in the bucket when it comes to the Disney corporation and ABC and whatnot. If in fact that’s true, why do you think his bosses decided to bring him back on the air? Why not just say it’s more trouble than it’s worth, it’s we’re ultimately not losing that much money from it, ultimately we want to, you know, play ball with the Trump administration. What do you think it is that caused Disney to bring him back?

Sabeeh (11:12)

I mean, they were right to an extent. mean, Kimmel is not, I think in terms of like the giant Disney bottom line, he’s probably not, he probably was not worth the trouble until people started canceling their Hulu subscriptions, their Disney Plus subscriptions, and actually ended up bleeding Disney out of billions of dollars in a pretty short amount of time. I forget the exact figure, but it was a pretty high figure, much larger than any kind of revenue that any late night show could bring in.

Disney’s value as a company is entirely in like its public perception as sort of like, you know, this family friendly, you know, very approachable, non-political entity. That’s sort of like an invitation to everyone. like, you know, they’ll do anything to not be on in the news cycle for anything bad.

Romen (12:01)

I mean, I guess I’m torn because on one hand, you you said it’s basically we went back to as if nothing had really happened the week before, which is in many ways true. I think the more cynical might say, all right, the Trump administration sort of is figuring out what they can and can’t get away with and they’ll be smarter next time.

On the other hand, some might say, hey, we’ve seen that there are public guardrails in place here, that there are certain things the public will not stand for. And is there any chance we can sleep a little better at night knowing that if the Trump administration and companies try and do things like this again, the public will stop it from happening?

Sabeeh (12:43)

That’s a good question. I think a lot about people saying, the Trump administration is doing this as a trial balloon and they’re trying to see what they can get away with. A lot of it’s just like, Trump feels like doing something and they’re like, okay, we have to do it. I’m torn between whether they’re really as like, are they playing 4D chess or are they just kind of playing checkers without knowing how to play checkers?

I don’t know how far ahead they’re really thinking with any of this. we’re sort of at the whims of someone who doesn’t like Kimmel. So the administration’s like, all right, well, let’s make him happy by getting rid of someone named Kimmel. And then, you know, the same day, we didn’t mention like, you know, the after the Kimmel cancellation, Trump went on Truth Social, also said the play out loud and said that Jimmy Fallon and Seth Meyers are next. So like, it was very, very blatant for, you know, anyone seeing what was happening, it’s a total political attack against free speech. ⁓

Romen (13:47)

Is that legal? Can they do that? Can they say that shit?

Sabeeh (13:50)

I don’t know. As a lawyer, I would advise people not to say that part out loud, but I mean…

Romen (13:55)

And as a late night comedy writer?

Sabeeh (13:59)

As a late night comedy writer, mean…Yeah, I really don’t know. mean, all this stuff around like what’s legal and what’s not. Laws are only as effective as what you enforce. Are reinforcing anything anymore.

Romen (14:12)

Right. So, it is possible that our listeners right now are wondering, these people are supposed to be comedians. Why are they talking about legalities and government policy and whatnot? I guess my question for you, you are a very learned person. You have a Master’s in what, international policy?

Sabeeh (14:13)

Yeah, I went to, unfortunately I went to an Ivy League school.

Romen (14:41)

So then why do you care about jokes that go on the air at 1:30 a.m. if you could go out and solve our world’s diplomatic crises with your international affairs degree?

Sabeeh (14:55)

Because it matters and I like living in a country where I can say what I want and I can speak truth to power and it doesn’t even have to be everything in between. I can go on a podcast right now and spend 20 minutes talking about policy and stuff. We could have also spent the past 20 minutes saying dick jokes and fart jokes.

I like the spectrum of being able to do and say that and there are countries where you don’t have that freedom. It really just comes down to this affects all of us, whether or not you get to write jokes that get read on TV, or if you’re just someone in like a break room at any job, like making these kinds of jokes. The thing that struck me with Kimmel’s comments, it really just sounded like things that the kind of banter you would hear in any office or any home about just people sort of processing what’s happened with Charlie Kirk and the aftermath of it. I think a lot of people who watched and heard and said what he did.

Obviously there were people on the right wing who were offended by his remarks, but there were a lot of people who like, you know, those are the kinds of things that I might say at home. You know, are people going to start coming after me and policing what I say and think? to me, yeah, as much as, you know, folks like Romen and I, very much, we very much care about what we can and cannot say because we’re in the business of trying to get things said and made on TV. But, you know, at the end of the day, this affects everyone.

Romen (16:23)

I really appreciate that. I think that is a very insightful answer. And I will now try and poke holes in that answer to see if I can catch you in a lie. Is that the reason you wanted to go into this field? That it is a sort of noble cause that, you know, respects our rights and helps, you know, champion our ability to speak out about important issues that we want? Or did you go into this field because it is simply fun to make lewd jokes and laugh with your friends about the world around you.

Sabeeh (16:57)

I mean, for me personally, I wanted to go into a field. Obviously I wanted to go somewhere where I feel like I could be valuable, but also, you know, be happy with my life and the things that I chose. I know people hearing like, they’ve never heard, anyone who knows a TV writer, they’ve rarely met like a happy TV writer. But at the time when I was making this career decision, I was like, you know, I want to go into a field where you know, I could be happy.

The thing that really drove me to like stay in this career was, you know, the community of it. You know, anyone who’s worked in TV, you get to meet like the best, coolest, nicest people, including people like Romen, producers and, you know, artists of, you know, every kind of background, directors, actors, and so on. you know, the thing that kept me coming, I started out as a sketch and improv comedian in New York City while I was still in school. I didn’t think I would make a career of this. I would go up, do a bit on stage, come off, and people would say, this is good, keep doing this. There was sort of this invitation to keep coming back. so far, however many years I am into this career, at least 10 years going on making comedy, so far people, they keep inviting me back and keep bringing me back. For me, it’s really just like, I’m just a part of this community now, and I like making stuff with my friends.

Romen (18:24)

And you are very, very talented at it, which is why people keep calling you to be a part of the next thing, Do you think that when you say that, you know, comedy writers claim not to be happy, is that real or is that a bit? Because I mean, my own…

Sabeeh (18:27)

I appreciate that.

Romen (18:41)

I like to kvetch sometimes about the lack of stability in this industry. But at the end of the day, the stuff, if we’re lucky enough to find jobs, the stuff we get paid to do to joke around with our friends effectively and come up with fun stories is like, it’s still pretty damn fun. I mean, some people might say that…there’s maybe a chicken and an egg about particularly depressive people being drawn to the comedy world because they’re able to really sort of look at the world through a 30,000 foot view as opposed to it being someone who truly is just happy-go-lucky and likes to joke, et cetera. I guess I can’t tell. Are we actually unhappy or is it a bit?

Sabeeh (19:27)

I would say any kind of high level competitive position is gonna have its stress and people are gonna carry it. I think that the quote unquote unhappiness that a TV writer carries may not be unlike the stress and unhappiness that your average physician or lawyer, and I hate to compare TV writers to doctors and lawyers, but you watch a show like The Pitt, you watch a show like Suits.

Like you’re seeing people who are in very highly competitive, very stressful, very like, you know, uh, quick, quick turnaround deadline, high competent, high competency level positions where you have, you have a lot expected of you. And, know, some people carry that stress well, and some people, you know, you have to talk them off the talk, them off of jumping off the ledge. Um, I think that, so I think the, especially now, you know, uh, TV writers are dealing with a lot of like changes in their industry. Um,

We’re constantly, every year, to see our industry evolve around us and everything from just in the past couple years being on a picket line, which I got to do alongside folks like Romen to doing jobs, ⁓ trying to get your scripts sold, but also producing podcasts and these other new media type projects and are just explore like what else is out there. think, yeah, it’s a stressful job and some people are happy with that and some people, it gets to them. So be kind to any TV writers you know is what I’m saying.

Romen (21:02)

And also doctors and lawyers. Are you, do you have existential concerns about this industry? And before I let you answer that, I’ll just of course point out that like things may look different, but are we not always evolving? Is it not like, TV writers, you know, 50 years ago might’ve had concerns and things did change drastically, but those changes were in the form of Netflix and whatnot. I mean, just because things are changing, are they necessarily getting worse?

Sabeeh (21:07)

To answer that question, no. Just because things are changing does not mean they’re necessarily getting worse. However, things like pay structures for compensating creatives fairly, things like, you know, finding an audience at a time, you know, 50 years ago there was sort of like a monoculture where if you were working on a TV show, were pretty, you were one of like, you were right on one of three channels and you were pretty certain to have millions of viewers on whatever you were writing on.

Now, you know, things have gotten so much more specific. Audiences really have the freedom to, you know, consume whatever they want. I know a lot more people who consume, you know, like the average streamer, like the average like Minecraft streamer on YouTube is probably gonna have a larger audience than your average TV writer. Is that better or worse? I don’t know. I mean, I think it’s nicer that like with these new medias and, you know, new audiences that allows you to get much more specific with the storytelling that you’re doing, you know, there are stories being told now that you could not tell or get away with 30, 40 years ago because like, you know, networks and people only wanted certain things on the air. But ⁓ yeah, I think it’s hard to say what that means for our future. think for anyone who’s, you know, working in this industry right now, I think their focus really is no matter where the winds are going, I just have to make the thing that excites me and I have to make it with people that I’m excited to work with and just hope for the best after.

Romen (23:15)

Okay, I’m concerned that your coming off is way too thoughtful here and that you’re not just like a shithead writer. ⁓ could you please tell us about the character you created called, ⁓ what was it? Imam Boogaloo?

Sabeeh (23:19)

Juggalo imam.

Romen (23:31)

Sorry. Could you please tell us about the character you created called Juggalo Imam?

Sabeeh (23:36)

Yes, so this was a sketch I did. Basically, the sketch takes place in 2002. It’s right after 9-11. And these folks at this mosque are thinking, man, it’s really tough out there with all the racism stuff. How can we blend in and have an easier life? And then this imam, who is a Muslim spiritual leader, bursts in with Juggalo clown makeup, akin to the Insane Clown Posse music group and says this is our ticket to blending into American culture. Like there’s nothing whiter than being a juggalo, a fan of Insane Clown Posse. And the makeup, you know, masks the brown. So out with brown and in with clown, I say.

Romen (24:17)

And how is that bit received?

Sabeeh (24:20)

Surprisingly, very well.

Romen (24:23)

You performed it several times, right?

Sabeeh (24:26)

Yes, I’ve performed it several times.  I’ve had other actors perform it as well. Yes, a good chunk of, especially my early writing, a good chunk of it was just like me processing my brownness and my Muslim identity and trying to channel it through like sketch comedy and very silly bits about who am I in this brown body and what does it mean to have this brown body navigated in today’s America.

Yes, very, if you bring me on a podcast, will sound much more thoughtful than if you were to come to my show and be like, who the hell, who the hell came up with this stuff.

Romen (25:06)

Well, fortunately I know better. I’m not going to fall for your, um, your intellectual shtick, which is real. It is 1000 % real. But as I said, you are, you can also be a massive shithead when you choose to be, which is one of the things I love about you. Um, you mentioned processing your identity, which I think is something a lot of us can relate to. Um, I’m curious, obviously, you know, Gold Sea Media, uh, our, our goal is to give voice to the AAPI community.

Romen (25:37)

I’ll ask specifically about South Asians. How do you think we are doing right now in this comedy writing space in terms of representation? Do you think that South Asians are visible right now? Do you think there are things we could be doing a better job of? Do you think we’ve come a long way?

Sabeeh (25:52)

We’ve definitely come a long way. I mean even the fact that, o give our listeners context, I mean Romen and I met as writers on a late-night show for a South Asian host Lilly Singh in a South Asian majority writers room when we both joined. That was unheard of on an NBC late-night show that was unheard of on basically any Late-night show or pretty much any TV show at that

I’m sure there are exceptions, they’re far and few in between. The late night landscape in general, we don’t have Lilly Singh on a late night show right now, we don’t have Hasan Minhaj on any late night show. Opportunities for visibility of that realm might be shrinking, but every day I see or hear a new headline of someone like a show like a Deli Boys that’s like getting picked up and renewed or like a Zarna Garg who’s like you know selling out shows ⁓ there was a comedian recently their name escaped escapes me but like the first like Hindi speaking ⁓ comedian to like sell out Madison Square Garden

I think if we stay too strict with, and this is something that I found, especially ⁓ among ⁓ South Asian creatives, we don’t care a lot about being the first of X something. I feel like there’s other communities that care about breaking that sort of barrier more. ⁓ We don’t care about being the first South Asian late night host or the first X South Asian whatever to like win like whatever award But we care about like making good stuff and like across the board, you’re gonna see South Asian people like making cool new interesting things in ways that like we did not we would not have anticipated ⁓ So I don’t think these South Asian creatives are going anywhere anytime soon They’re gonna keep making stuff and they’re gonna keep finding new avenues to make that cool stuff

Romen (27:52)

I think the only thing I will add to that is that we also have a right to make a bunch of crap that’s not very good. And I think you and I would both agree with this, that the goal is to get to a point where South Asians can be churning out crap without having to worry that a couple bad projects will cost us the opportunity to ever get anything on air again.

Sabeeh (27:59)

Yes.

Romen (28:19)

Right now there’s this sort of concern of like, “oh no, they’re already, they already have their doubts about putting South Asians out there. If something bad happens, then they’ll say never, we’re not going to give you the chance again.”

Sabeeh (28:31)

No, the dream is mediocrity. For every community, the dream is being able to get away with mediocrity. My job is to support every South Asian no matter the project. Romen and I have both been to events to support people where I’m like, this is cool, this isn’t going to change the world or whatever. we’re getting to see people we like make some stuff.

It doesn’t have to be amazing and groundbreaking, but we just want opportunities to make stuff no matter what it is.

Romen (29:01)

Well my friend, if the goal is to create mediocrity, you are not contributing to that goal. You’re doing too well, unfortunately. So please tone it down a little bit.

Sabeeh (29:12)

I will take you up on that and make sure my next project is as forgettable and as middle of the lane as I can make it.

Romen (29:22)

Thank you, that’s all I ask. Well, cool, man, this has been a great conversation. ⁓ Thank you so much for joining, and the next time a major late night comic gets canceled, come back and talk to us again.