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ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
The White Stuff: Whiting Wongs & Wonging Whites
hey're our neighbors, buddies, allies, enemies, clients, bosses, employees, lovers and spouses. Many of us have more daily contact with Whites than with other Asians. Consequently, we often feel we know them better than they can ever know us. Maybe that's at the heart of our frustration as Asian Americans. They are as ubiquitous and pervasive as the air we breath while to them it seems we are eternal curiosities, outsiders, exotics.
Bridging the gap?
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And so we sometimes find ourselves lashing out with nasty generalizations about the people we blame for all that seems wrong with American society and, more specifically, our place in it. They are ignorant, shallow, boorish, smelly, sneaky, treacherous, malicious, dumb, weird -- in short, all the labels we feel have been so unfairly slapped on us.
But even as we hurl such epithets we cannot forget the countless acts of kindness, warmth, generosity, friendship, passion and love that we have enjoyed from these very same people. As our anger and frustration subside, we recognize that our fates are inextricably intertwined, not merely in sharing a world, a nation, a society, an economy, a culture -- but often in sharing even our most intimate lives. One in five of today's Asian American marriages are to Whites. And contrary to the imbalance of the past, the ratio of new AM/WF marriages to new AF/WM marriages is steadily approaching unity.
So we naturally have a strong interest in decoding the other side of the equation. Understanding is a two-way street. Fortunately, there are Whites who have enough interest in us as individuals to share their perspectives on us and on their interactions with us. This page is for those who -- as corny as it may sound -- have chosen to serve as bridges.
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Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
(Updated
Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:38:55 AM)
I maybe have some perspective on this post as I have witnessed Korea beat portugal while in Lisbon and now i've seen them trounce Italy while working in Milan.
both european nations have seemed (based on my limited observations) to be disappointed but appear to have a new found respect for Asians, at least on the sporting field.
i think the only asians most people here have ever seen esp. in Milan are camera toting Japanese tourists and so would never have considered them worthy sporting opponents.
maxdacat
Tuesday, June 18, 2002 at 07:39:03 (PDT)
Singaporean in the US,
"If this is the case why are so many white Australians working in Singapore? Perhaps they did not get jobs back home?"
Not sure what connection this statement has with the initial observation but there are possibly a significant number of white australians in Singapore - not sure about "so many"...sounds like you're agonising over a sort of white peril.
Why are they there? It could be because there is/was a labour shortage in your small island that needed to be filled. I think most of them would have had jobs back home in various professions and then made the move to be an expat - if you're implying that they are the bottom of the barrel then maybe singapore should try harder to attract a better type of expat.
"Australian and western cultures are too weak"......i'll take your word for it
"in the US I read from these boards that in some cases that a dog may be more acceptable as a daughter than an Asian daughter-in-law"........i hear this all the time and my parents have said the same....unless the dog is Pekingese of course
"A person such as Pauline Hanson would have been silenced or executed a long time ago in Singapore."........we should naturally execute those with different viewpoints
"More white Australians are taking jobs away from Asians in a number of countries including Japan, HK and Singapore than the other way round.".....sure they took part in an economic boom but they should be kicked out at the first sign of a downturn
"When whites become minority, racism of the kind you describe declines"......oh yeah because only whites are racist
"You are crazy. Why do you keep company with a low life, white trash? Someone who may harm you physically in the future. I would avoid her like a plague. She sounds like someone who would wipe her nose on you!"......don't become a human kleenex!!!
"To be successful in the globalizing world, Australia has to keep an open mind. Otherwise it would get economically wiped out by the likes of Singapore and the United States".....right...i actually thought economic growth in Australia for the last two quarters outstripped that of Singapore and the US put together
"Perhaps the so-called environmentalists and white nationalists want to go back to living on tree tops as their ancestors did back in Europe.".....yes, believe it or not there are people out there who would rather live in trees
You're a great advertisement for the Singaporean educational system and its irreverent brand of learning.
maxdacat
Tuesday, June 18, 2002 at 05:29:23 (PDT)
Singaporean in the US, villageidiot, Economist
Thanks, all your views are very interesting.
"Asian gangsters were hung by Mr. Lee Kuan Yew in Singapore." [...] Perhaps Australia needs a few Singaporean advisors from the Ministry of Justice. Asian culture is what they need.
Singapore has done incredibly well socially and economically, and I do appreciate being able to go out at night without fear when i'm there. However, i'm morally against capital punishment. No country has perfected the rule of law, it's too easy for people to get executed without a fair trial. Justice tends to be distributed according to wealth, luck, even race. What do you think of China's rate of summary executions?
"If this is the case why are so many white Australians working in Singapore? Perhaps they did not get jobs back home?"
Australia has a problem of losing many young, talented people who go overseas to find better career opportunities. It's probably because we have an "old" economy - predominantly agricultural. We're not all that technologically advanced, although we are good in some fields of science (e.g. geology).
The other problem with Australia is that it doesn't know how to recognise and utilise talent. It is a status-quo preserving, somewhat stagnant society. Quite a number of people don't get the recognition they deserve here, so they go overseas.
My boyfriend went to the US, where he earns double and the work is far more challenging. I think he hit a bit of a glass ceiling over here, people were stopping him from getting ahead and it's probably because he was a recent migrant with a Russian accent. In the US, lots of doors were open to him. His brother has a PhD in Physics from Russia's most prestigious university, but when he came here he could only get a job on a factory assembly line! He's doing slightly better now, after having obtained another degree in Australia. It's one of the most tragic stories of wasted talent i've heard, apart from the Russian athletic champion who came to Australia and became a pizza delivery guy.
"however, there are critics who claim that US is engaged is a sort of "imperialism of the inteligensia" by robbing developing countries of their talents and importing them here."
YEAH! Give my boyfriend back, you thieves! :)
"You are crazy. Why do you keep company with a low life, white trash? Someone who may harm you physically in the future. I would avoid her like a plague. She sounds like someone who would wipe her nose on you!"
No, she wouldn't harm me physically. Australian nationalism is pervasive, but doesn't reach the kind of extremes you find in the US. It is not white supremacism a la KKK, but rather 'protection' of the national (white) culture and the nation's borders. She thinks Asians are okay, as long as we behave like whites ("assimilate"), hold the same values as whites, prove our loyalty, don't speak "our own" languages around her, don't set up stores with foreign language signs - you know what i mean. She says, "I don't discriminate based on race, but on culture." Of course, in reality there is no difference. I think she feels her own culture threatened. What shits me most is that she calls asylum seekers "illegal immigrants", even the majority who are genuine refugees. In fact most of the people in Australia illegally are British and US citizens who overstay their visas, but of course that's not an issue for her. I guess my objections are more political than anything else. If this girl and i don't discuss politics, things are ok. I don't feel threatened by her because she's not very bright.
I thought further about the US compared to Australia, and i think the main difference is that Australia's racism has to do with chronology (the White Australia policy wasn't abolished until the 1970s). Thinking optimistically, perhaps when Australia has had Asian immigration for as long as the US has, it will be less racist than the US. Especially when the middle-aged and old people pass on.
krasavitsa
Tuesday, June 18, 2002 at 04:50:05 (PDT)
South African Asian Female and Krastavista,
If I had half of the experiences you guys have, I would move to the US, China, Taiwan, or Singapore already. Seriously, have you ever considered moving to a more diversity-tolerant country? US is not always perfect, but it is much, much better and I like it here.
Red Red Seashell
Monday, June 17, 2002 at 12:57:51 (PDT)
Thanks for your note South African Asian Female. The country is still very racist...perhaps it is getting closer to Australia. Read the newsreport below:
"South Africa's version of the talent competition Pop Idol came to an ignominious end last night, accused of racism, vote rigging and bet fixing.
Heinz Winckler, a 23-year-old white man, was named the winner when the voting results of Idols were announced, beating Brandon October, a young designer and gospel singer who is widely considered the more talented. But Brandon October is black.
Opinion is divided about whether the vote was skewed by the angelic Winckler's support from teenage girls in the overwhelmingly white audience, or mass voting by betting syndicates.
The programme, shown on the pay-TV station M-Net, 80% of whose viewers are white, has always been controversial.
...
From the London Guardian, June 17, 2002
Historian
Monday, June 17, 2002 at 12:37:59 (PDT)
"Gangsters of any form are a sign of a decadent and decaying society. Perhaps Australia needs a few Singaporean advisors from the Ministry of Justice. Asian culture is what they need."
if you remember fyodor dostoevsky, he said that a society degree of "advancement" can be judged by looking at its jails. so by corrollary if a society have no jail then doesn't that imply it has no "civilization?"
"in the state that matters most, whites are a minority...California'
plurality does not mean minority.
villageidiot
Monday, June 17, 2002 at 11:56:52 (PDT)
I will give you a simplistic view of the way Austraila needs asian immigrants.
- The country is the size of USA, but only has 17 million people on it.
- Of those 17 million people, half of them are backpackers and don't believe in working full time.
They will need industrious asian immigrants, if they wish to step toe-to-toe with the the little tiger economies of S. Korea, Taiwan, Singapore.
From an economic stand point Japan and China are never mentioned in the same breath as Austraila.
AC Dropout
Monday, June 17, 2002 at 11:34:42 (PDT)
Dear South African Female,
[I tried to send a post just now, but maybe i lost it when the connection cut out, and maybe not, so pardon me if there are two very similar posts from me. Damn! I spent ages on it!]
Thanks, your post was a real eye-opener. It was the first time i'd heard from an Asian who went through apartheid in South Africa. Without question, racism there was (is?) much, much worse than in Australia; there is no comparison, (keeping in mind that i can't speak for Aboriginal Australians.)
How did you ever cope with such racism directed at you, your family and friends? How?? It is hard for me to imagine. It must have taken a great deal of courage to go through what you described, and to go back there again after fleeing. In what way were you involved in the anti-apartheid movement? Please do tell more, it's very interesting...
The 'white nationalist' girl i mentioned in my last posting is not nearly as bad as the Afrikaaner and British women you wrote about. Perhaps i used the wrong term to describe her political leanings. She doesn't say that Asians are inferior, only that "they shouldn't bring their own culture into Australia". If she was anywhere near as racist as the women you described, i would have given her a good slap!
One often reads/hears about horrendous acts of human cruelty, but nonetheless reading about your first-hand experiences is very sobering. If you don't mind my asking, what are you doing in South Africa now? I would like to visit South Africa someday, though your story makes me a bit nervous. How much has changed since 1994? Anyway, after reading your story, people in Australia and the US will be going to bed feeling very fortunate. I know i will! Take care, it would be really great if we could keep in touch.
krasavitsa
Monday, June 17, 2002 at 11:09:48 (PDT)
Red Red Seashell,
I have actually always loved Asian foods, and being a complete vegetarian, it actually fits into my diet quite well! Not to mention I'm a fitness nut and constantly watch my weight, so eating a low fat Asian diet helps. The first time I saw my b/f eating chicken feet I was a little squeamish, but I am so used to it now, I'm used to the strong smelling herbs brewing in a pot, the hummingbird-nest soup, the shark fin soup. I love his parents' cooking, the sponge cake, tofu, little pastry buns from Chinatown, milk tea, green tea. His parents are quite impressed with my chopstick-using ability! :)
As for the racist incident, we were shopping in a Chinese market, as I do every week to get my fresh tofu, and I didn't have enough money on me, b/c I forgot to go to the ATM. The lady at the register said in Chinese to another woman "Such a shame, all the Chinese boys are dating the stupid white girls now" thinking that my b/f didn't understand, but he did and he let out a stream of Chinese obscenities! Made me so mad. But honestly other than that I've been very accepted from the Chinese community, his friends, family, etc.
Here's a question for you, if you and your b/f ever got married and had kids, what do you think the best way to raise them would be? Send them to Chinese school, go to cultural events, but also teach them about their Western side?
question (aka Lisa)
Monday, June 17, 2002 at 09:25:37 (PDT)
Krasavitsa and South African Asian Female:
I've just been reading your experiences and I have to admit they quite blew me away. I guess even though white-minority relationships are not anywhere near optimal in the US, we still have it relatively easier. It never ceases to amaze me how such open bigotry still exists in the world.
BTW, don't assume that all educated whites are necessarily more tolerant. They may not use racial slurs, but their bias is still in their minds. I've had otherwise great professors at Oxford who've told me things like "imperialism has done more good than harm" and that "nations only started to fall apart after Europeans left." (And this was a supposedly liberal woman, too!!) I asked her "don't you think they fell apart the way they did because all of the corruption introduced by those European invaders??"
She was a little floored, tee hee!
Asian Dominatrix
Monday, June 17, 2002 at 09:16:24 (PDT)
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