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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
The White Stuff: Whiting Wongs & Wonging Whites
hey're our neighbors, buddies, allies, enemies, clients, bosses, employees, lovers and spouses. Many of us have more daily contact with Whites than with other Asians. Consequently, we often feel we know them better than they can ever know us. Maybe that's at the heart of our frustration as Asian Americans. They are as ubiquitous and pervasive as the air we breath while to them it seems we are eternal curiosities, outsiders, exotics.
Bridging the gap?
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And so we sometimes find ourselves lashing out with nasty generalizations about the people we blame for all that seems wrong with American society and, more specifically, our place in it. They are ignorant, shallow, boorish, smelly, sneaky, treacherous, malicious, dumb, weird -- in short, all the labels we feel have been so unfairly slapped on us.
But even as we hurl such epithets we cannot forget the countless acts of kindness, warmth, generosity, friendship, passion and love that we have enjoyed from these very same people. As our anger and frustration subside, we recognize that our fates are inextricably intertwined, not merely in sharing a world, a nation, a society, an economy, a culture -- but often in sharing even our most intimate lives. One in five of today's Asian American marriages are to Whites. And contrary to the imbalance of the past, the ratio of new AM/WF marriages to new AF/WM marriages is steadily approaching unity.
So we naturally have a strong interest in decoding the other side of the equation. Understanding is a two-way street. Fortunately, there are Whites who have enough interest in us as individuals to share their perspectives on us and on their interactions with us. This page is for those who -- as corny as it may sound -- have chosen to serve as bridges.
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Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
(Updated
Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:38:55 AM)
Sue,
If we abide by the laws of affirmative action, we're only supposed to make up about 3% of the population in any institutions, which is obviously a very small number. Asians make up something like 3.6% of the American population (from the most recent Census). So it's obvious why we "have" to be under represented.
JJK
Sunday, March 31, 2002 at 08:23:41 (PST)
WF,
I think that has nothing to do w/ CBS being racist or anything. Most Asians wouldn't dare apply to such show, and even if they did, probably none of them were dynamic enough to be picked for the show.
I mean one of the people picked filmed herself living in a trash can, lots of others rejected sent videos of them eating bugs, etc. Most Asians cannot do such "retarded" things like that, sorry. :)
JJK
Sunday, March 31, 2002 at 08:17:50 (PST)
The Asian stereotypical values are admirable. Close, nuclear families, emphasis on education, basic respect for family, friend, and even foe.
I can speak for no one but my self, but in this, I often feel ... inadequate. I was raised in a culture where the elderly are often put into retirement homes, where kids are just as likely to drop out of high school as they are to finish, and where basic respect is almost non-existent.
It rings closer to home when it comes to romance. It seems that everywhere I look, beautiful Asian women are paired with wonderful men of other races, including their own. I futilely love Asian men, in fact, I tend to date them more than any other, whenever the rare opportunity presents itself. Yet, they prefer Asian women, and it's so hard to compete with the mystique of Asian women.
I am blonde-haired, green-eyed, and with a sarcastic thanks to my Irish ancestors, I look like I could put in a hard day's work in the fields. How can I compete with the dark, sultry, petite femininity of the Asian woman?
Stereotypically, Asian girls are shy, demure, polite, respectful, and beautiful, coupled with sharp intelligence, and a keen sense for success in business. Yet, they manage to balance this with an aura of sensuality.
I probably would benefit with a trip to a therapist to explore my self-esteem issues. But, in short, I don't revile or despise Asians. I respect them, but I'm envious.
SK
skowinwipat@yahoo.com
Sunday, March 31, 2002 at 06:58:24 (PST)
The only way to bridge the gap, or educate the white masses on the diversity of asians in the USA. Is to force them to live in a Chinatown for a few months. Or force them to watch media produced in Tokyo, Seoul, HK, Taipei, Bollywood, etc. for a good brainwashing.
Other than that you will always have a isolated redneck who thinks asians are the token yellow characters on a tv show.
AC Dropout
Saturday, March 30, 2002 at 16:30:32 (PST)
Phreaknik,
I have noticed that about Asian Dominatrix too. Glad it is not just me.
lea
Saturday, March 30, 2002 at 11:28:27 (PST)
Mark from Virginia -
You're a cutie!!! I think you'll do just fine with any woman you set your mind and heart towards!
Picklehead Jones
Saturday, March 30, 2002 at 10:16:30 (PST)
I think this is stupid and absurd. People have to be more open-minded and not judge people by their skin color like what we are doing here, and all over Goldsea!!! Hyprocritic you guys are, complaining about how stereotypes are wrongfully plastered on you by "Whites" and then saying that all "Whites" (& "Blacks") think that Asians are eternal curiosities, outsiders, exotics. It's cruel thinking to everyone. And cruel thinking to yourself, to be so concious about this. Yes, it might be true to SOME people, but who are you to judge a whole race of seeing Asians like that? I've seen many "Whites" coming in here, explaining how they are just as okay with Asians as they are with anyone else!!!!! And there are also some really bias"Whites" AND "Asians" who are rude in response, but that is becoz no matter what situation they will still be jerks.
~The reason I used "" it's becoz I dont want to categorize people like most of you are doing. We're all human, all individuals. All we need is to be open-minded and more people who write to you guys explaining thing like THIS, like me!!!
Gorgeous, big-headed Gurl
prettyprodigium@aol.com
Friday, March 29, 2002 at 18:39:52 (PST)
Sue,
Where are you from? Seems like your friends don't have much exposure to other culture at all.
FOP
Friday, March 29, 2002 at 17:46:50 (PST)
Greetings WF,
To answer to your question, "Does any know why no Asians has ever been on any survivor show?"
Asians are rarely seen on television shows much less Survivor. You made a keen observation that there are two blacks on the show. This is the way with all shows "Friends, Real World, etc.." Networks figure that if they put African Americans on television along with Whites that they have covered all ethnicities (all the colors of the rainbow).
I am so glad that you have made this observation. Others must also notice it too (I've noticed this trend since I was about 10 years old, not trying to put you down). That's TV and movies for you. Good day.
young gentleman
Friday, March 29, 2002 at 17:33:21 (PST)
to Huu76
"...For white women: I think models are the most attractive, followed by real girls."
What then, oh highly intelligent person, do you think about fake girls? And do you consider models to be real or fake girls?
"...For Asian and Indian (foreign only):
Actresses and singers are the best, followed by normal girls."
So does that mean the actresses and singers are abnormal girls? But abnormal girls are real girls too, right? And why do female Indians have to be foreign to be considered attractive? Is it the water they drink over there?
This is such a deep and intellectual post from huu76.
MLK
Friday, March 29, 2002 at 17:19:13 (PST)
Curious white,
Sorry, I didn't get a chance to answer your last post.
I am wondering if the guy you mentioned is an Asian-American who does not know how to read or write his parents' language. This might explain why he cannot read the labels on food or on CDs. I'm not being facetious: there are many AA's, particularly those born here in the US, who can speak and understand an Asian language but not know how to read or write it.
If this is not so, it is possible that maybe he's embarrassed, especially if he's been teased about his Asianness. However, please don't assume that all Asians are like that. For instance, while I myself do not read Chinese, I enjoy talking about Chinese customs and legends.
There are many different levels of self-acceptance. And this applies to other ethnicities as well. For instance, amongst those of Polish descent, I have noticed that some will very willingly answer my questions about Polish customs, food, etc., while others will behave almost defensively.
Phreaknik/Littletwit!
My, my, my, look who's here: the little GED dropout, pursuing me all the way from the weight forum. Well, maybe your writing skills have improved a wee bit, but your reading comprehension skills and reasoning ability could use some help. Er, LOTS of help.
First of all, do you understand the meaning of the words "enough," "many," "some" and "all"? Even my 7-year old niece knows the difference! I said: "Every day I always manage to see enough Asian women over 5'8"." Or did your slow, silly little dyslexic, double-digit IQ brain misconstrue that into "Every Asian woman is over 5'8"?
Secondly, I said "many Asian women are well brought up, well educated...." How on earth did you get "ALL Asian women" out of that?? And if I mention that there are Asian women who have those traits, does that necessarily mean that no white women have those traits? Or that these traits are exclusive to Asian women? You need Logic 101--if you can get into college, that is. (This applies to anyone else who's made this mistake in reading my post!)
Thirdly, I said "Some of the Asian models could beat them hands down..." Again, how did you turn that "some" into "all"?
OK, OK, so you obviously haven't mastered second-grade reading. But what is more worrisome is your general inability to reason. Again, why is a celebration of Asian female traits necessarily a denial of white female traits? I don't know if it's your inability to read or grasp simple points of logic, but whatever it is, YOU are the one who is full of the "morbid sense of entitlement." Either that, or you have purposely misconstrued my post because of YOUR "own internal demons." Right?
You need a chill pill, pal. Maybe two.
Asian Dominatrix
Friday, March 29, 2002 at 13:37:56 (PST)
Phreaknik
WELL SAID!!!!
moi
Friday, March 29, 2002 at 12:00:26 (PST)
Thank you Dominatrix and Indian for feedback.
I checked on the issue about passports on US State Dept. page and found
that in 2001 - 7, 119, 506 Americans were issued passports.
This does seem pretty low. As a life long traveler I guess I thought there were more people like me.
I think the real reason that Americans do not travel is financial. In Asia and Europe foreign nations are very close to each other. When I attended school in Berlin Germany for 3 years I traveled all over Europe - it was fairly cheap and not too far.
When my husband and I, he is half Chinese-American and his mother was born in Japan. (My father in law met her when he was an MD for the US Air force), well we visited his relatives in Japan and an uncle in Hong Kong and took a trip to Thailand.
Again the closer proximity making it so much cheaper and easier.
Not too many Americans have these kind of opportunities. I was just lucky...and have a strong desire to travel!
And Indian I have half Western and Eastern European blood in me...I guess it only makes me half - bad !!!
Hope we can build a bridge and not burn it !!
take care everyone , much love to you
Hayley
Friday, March 29, 2002 at 11:04:41 (PST)
First, to address some issues my last post and others like it have brought up:
I was in no way suggesting that white women are never beautiful. To quote, "White girls aren't naturally beautiful any more often than any other race." I agree that it's ridiculous to discuss what race has a higher percentage of beautiful women.
More at the heart of my email was trying to disabuse people of the notion that all whites have advantages over people of other races, specifically in America. I defer to White Expatriate in Asia outside the United States, since I have lived nowhere else. (Though while we're at it, yes I have a passport, and yes it has stamps). Yes, even in the US, almost all positions of great power go to whites. Those people also usually have several other things in common: They're overwhelmingly male, heterosexual, and at least nominally Christian, and if they aren't all of these things, they aren't letting on. Since I'm a woman and not Christian, I would probably never climb to one of these positions if I was trying. My point is that me being white does not signify that anyone is giving me any breaks for it. Clearly, I find that assumption highly offensive. Furthermore, unless a person actually appears to BE in a position which their abilities clearly do not merit, it's quite unfair to blame them for a faulty system. (This is not pointed at anyone, just as a reminder, folks. I'm just bringing up some new points now.)
It will also be offensive to a lot of whites (myself included) to assume that they have not been the target of discrimination just because they are white. Yes, it is a travesty that the AA man (whose name I have forgotten, I'm sorry) was killed and his murderers not brought to justice, among many similar instances of racism against Asians. It's sickening. But might I bring to your attention the homosexuals who have also been treated thus? The Wiccans and other neo-pagans who have lost their jobs, their children, their homes, and their health, and often not seen justice? The anarchists who have, on many many occasions, been arrested for literally no greater crime than distributing food to the homeless? I hate to bring such unpleasant thoughts to your minds, but I want you to truly remember that bigotry comes in many more forms than racism, and that it will never be eliminated by turning around and making generalizations about other people.
Thank you for your time.
Ahankara
Friday, March 29, 2002 at 10:47:21 (PST)
I am getting back to the point. What do whites think of Asians? Here is one point of view from the AA Gender Divide Board.
"This is in stark contrast to asian women, who look VERY different than whites with different skin color, very different eye shape, nose shape, and build...." Matt Richardson from AA Gender Divide Board
With thoughts like these, not much chance of building bridges is there?
Asian Girl
Friday, March 29, 2002 at 09:23:42 (PST)
"Unfortunately, the concerns of one's pocketbook tend to overweigh questions of conscience when you're a poor postdoc."
I buy stuff on sale. I am not that well off either.
"I was only trying to question *Me's* claims There are many very attractive white women such as Kate Moss, Kate Beckinsale, Gwyneth Paltrow, and Uma Thurman."
Uma Thurman is mixed, part Asians actually.
"But yes, I do get tired all of the white women (or the self-hating Asians) who come to Goldsea and try to assert their superiority, as well as those I've seen at work who only try to help other whites while banging on about the lack of equal opportunities for white women AND complaining about affirmative action for blacks IN THE SAME BREATH."
You are right. I see them at work all the time...white American women. Affirmitive Action was great until it worked only for white women. Now, that it does not work for them all the time, and it also benefits blacks, they want to get it overturned. All defendants in the AA cases in Texas, California, Michigan and Georgia are all white. In California it was an engineering case. And guess what, the woman who sued did not get a slot at Berkeley after AA was repealed. More slots went to Asian women, who were obviously smarter than the person who sued. Now those same women are saying that there are too many Asians in Berkeley. It seems to me that you cannot win unless you are white and perhaps female. Despite all their talks about sexism among white males, white females would help white males before they lift their finger to help other Asians or minorities. That is a fact.
"I also get tired of the white women who like to perpetuate all the negative stereotypes of Asian women, whether physical (short, skinny, and ugly, etc.) or psychological (pushover or dragon lady). *Me* seemed to exemplify this attitude in her post."
I would do the same if 40% of Asian females were marrying "our" men.
Berkeley
Friday, March 29, 2002 at 09:16:46 (PST)
Phrekanik:
I am very mindful of the fact that the words used here are very hurtful...However, this is not a one way street. In the AA Gender Divide board, one of the whites made the following comments, emphasizing differences rather than trying to build bridges:
"The reason why it is not as much of an issue with Lebanese women IS because their ethnic features are VERY CLOSE to that of whites- they look white for all intensive purposes. This is in stark contrast to asian women, who look VERY different than whites with different skin color, very different eye shape, nose shape, and build. In addition, there is MUCH less of a cultural difference with Lebanese women since a very large percentage of Lebanese people are Christian. You cannot say this of Chinese, Japanese, or Koreans. Yes, it does have to do with their physical features: since the ethnic features of the Lebanese are VERY close to that of white (European-Americans) it shows that the Lebanese women are NOT marrying outside their race out of racial self-hate or because they feel their features are less attractive than those of whites. This is in sharp contrast to asian features, which differ GREATLY from white features. This, combined the the attitude common among many asian women that white features are more attractive than asian features, seals my argument."
Specifically, I would like to get your comments on this. Sitting in this remote island off the coast of Thailand, which belongs to India, I used to think that only Indians are very obsessed with skin color...they always wanted fair brides and more recently the fairest bridegroom that money can buy...I thought that some of these mindsets died two decades ago in the USA, but it seems to exist and it is very troubling because US is the most powerful country on the earth, and people like this white character may be making day to day decisions...and one of these days they may decide to blow the light out of people who do not look like them. To me it seems like race obsession is high on the list in the US.
Please provide me with some knowledge on this subject.
And far as Dominatrix is concerned, I think you should frequent the gender divide page and respond to the white guy's assertion. or many people are going to assume that our bodies are really different from that of a Lebanese or a white female. I do not know what he means? Do we as Asian women walk on four legs or move on our stomach unlike white and Lebanese women?
Vani, Port Blair, Andaman and Nicobar Islands, India
Friday, March 29, 2002 at 08:09:15 (PST)
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