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ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
WHAT FOBs THINK OF AMERICAN-BORN ASIANS
y FOBs we mean anyone who has ever been called an FOB. -- "fresh-off-the-boat", anyone not born here. In other words, half the AA population. Even the 2 million AA who immigrated as kids and speak English like -- or in some cases, better than -- native-born Americans rarely escape the sting of being dismissed by American-Born Asians (ABAs) based on real or imagined differences.
The stereotype of the hopeless FOB who just doesn't get American culture is all too familiar. But intra-Asian prejudice is a two-way street.
No less insulting are the images held by FOBs. ABAs are the descendants of the lowliest of peasants forced to flee their homelands to become indentured servants, sniff some FOBs. Born and bred to accept second-class status in a white society, sneer others. Slackers who don't know the meaning of ambition and sacrifice -- and who lack the guts to do anything about it in any case.
FOBs run the socio-economic gamut. A significant minority (perhaps a tenth) are highly successful trans-Pacific business families seeking a safe haven for their fortunes. The vast majority are engineers, scientists, physicians and academics braving the uncertainties of new lives for a chance to work hard for more money and better opportunities. A few are refugees and illegals risking their lives to escape hopeless, grinding poverty.
It's safe to say few FOBs feel in any respect disadvantaged relative to American-born Asians. In fact, given a dozen years most do as well or better than ABAs financially, if not socially. They can be excused, then, for harboring some less-than-flattering assessments of ABAs. By the same token, in their struggle to acculturate, FOBs often come to appreciate the trails blazed by the ABS, or at least, by their ancestors.
Assuming you're FOB or straddling the FOB-ABA fence, what's your image of ABAs? Let's hear the good as well as the bad.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
(Updated
Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:38:55 AM)
Asian Dom,
Margaret Cho? George Takei? Matt Fong? I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Are those supposed to be examples of ABA brilliance or are you just throwing up any famous name that comes to mind? I didn't name Jackie Chan, Chow Yun-Fat and Jet Li, for example, because I don't consider them brilliant. Don't forget that I began this discussion with the relative IQs of ABA vs FOB. Relevance, people! *Sigh*
Come on. Where ARE the brilliant and successful ABAs? Won't someone please help move this discussion forward instead of spouting sour-grapes hostility like that Proud ABA character? Just forget that I am more successful than you and focus on the discussion at hand!
Penelope,
I won't add to the blood envy already poisoning this page by specifying which part of the top 20 my law school falls into, but better contextual reading skills would have let you infer at least that it is indeed a top 20 school. You will need to improve your analytical skills to pass the bar unless you are planning on practicing in South Dakota or Wyoming.
Economic security is an entirely different matter. My folks weren't as affluent as yours but managed to sell enough dry cleaning services to send all five kids through grad/professional school. In return we have set them up in comfort in a very nice neighborhood with a nice lifestyle. Yes, we are crass enough to be proud of having done this, as well as for providing our own kids with great comfort not to say unseemly luxury. Shame on us! Damn, how I envy your well-bred indifference to wealth!
1st Class FOB
Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 07:33:44 (PST)
Hey, wait-a-minute;
(I would be considered an ABC or ABA.)
But FOB's are cool by me...cause they are **HARDCORE** man!!!!
F.U.
Monday, November 12, 2001 at 22:39:57 (PST)
Asia Dominatrix:
it is a joke to compare Margaret Cho,
Matt Fong, etc and Kristy Yamaguchi to
the likes of Charles Wang, and other
incredibly successful FOB's. Charles
Wang could employ 10 of them do sweep
his business! 1st class FOB did not
even need to list successful people
who choose to stay in Asia -- Gong Li,
Zhang Yimou, are examples of artists
if you indeed want to go in that
direction. Your answer shows how
small minded ABAs are.
Friend of 1st class FOB
Monday, November 12, 2001 at 21:01:43 (PST)
Enlighten me, is racism against Asian Americans that big a problem in America?
I came in my mid teens to America from one of the few countries that has a Chinese majority. I have received nothing but kindness and generosity from white Americans. The country I came from now has a per capita income higher than Great Britain and a high proportion of the people there are richer than their old colonial rulers. I could easily go home and still do well but I chose to remain in the U.S. because I like and respect Americans, in particular white Americans. Sometimes I feel that Asians who complain of racism have it so easy that they do not know how things can be so much harder and different. It's like they say, the whiners are usually those who have it the easiest and those who really appreciate what they have and have the strongest spirits are the ones that have been through the most. I feel that is how it is with the issue of racism that many Asian Americans complain about. Am I missing something? Please enlighten. For example, in the 60's, George Wallace tried to prevent a clearly qualified black student from enrolling in the university of Alabama. These days, you see tons of Asian Americans attending the most prestigious universities, many for less than honorable motives i.e. studying and having a passion for law or medicine mainly for money and prestige instead of for wanting to help people and on top of that not being honest about their motives. Actually, I feel that overwhelmingly it is whites that contributed the the most to the success of American society. Can't they at least sometimes express their pride without minorities shouting 'Racist'? I wonder what would be the situation if the roles were reversed? In fact many Asian Americans are doing better than a great number of whites in America and most whites don't feel jealous or envious. Please tell me if I am wrong and don't tell me that we are all human beings regardless of race. Just look at the ABA/FOB dichotomy on this site.
Proud Chinese
Monday, November 12, 2001 at 17:57:23 (PST)
penelope:
Great observation! People who already come from a wealthy, comfortable, or well-balanced upbringing usually have no need to prove anything, flaunt new wealth or new status, and have a grateful and humble attitude.
My friend who works at the Asian Community Center is a great example. She came from a comfortable upbringing, and married an AA who also came from a comfortable upbringing. Both of them have more money than they can spend. She does not feel she needs to prove anything. Her happiness comes from knowing she is making a true difference in helping the next generation of Asians appreciate how to achieve true happiness and respect from others.
She said after you have enough true wealth, money is no longer the absolute motivator. People like First Class FOB represent Asians who need new money to make him feel better about himself. If First Class FOB were truly happy, well balanced, and secure with his standing in American society, he would not have posted his vitriolic posts. His tone just shows how truly clueless he is since he still does not understand what it takes to achieve true happiness and how to gain the genuine respect of others. Funny thing is, he actually sounds like someone who dreams that if he got more degrees, made more money, and proclaimed himself superior, he will be happy. But reality is a rude awakening since First Class FOB's posts clearly show he is anything but happy.
Proud ABA
Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:09:07 (PST)
First Class FOB:
You must have consulted some of your FOB friends since your last post have some original content.
I know it is a challenge for a serious automaton like you, devoid of personality, to understand that the lunch money bit was playing on your insecurities. If you were truly a happy, accomplished, and well-rounded person, you would have no need to spew vitriol on this website. Your tone just reflects the emptiness in you, still smarting, still looking for respect, but do not understand what it takes to earn true respect. I just play the role and use the same negative tone to humble you. How sad that you actually needed to come to an Asian American website to claim superiority. Truly happy, accomplished and well-rounded people have no need to claim anything as the honest, and whole truth, speaks for itself.
For someone who claims to be so superior, your inferiority complex is showing. What Mickey Mouse School did you attend since you don’t have the first clue about proper debating technique? Let me outline proper debating technique so you and the FOBs you will be consulting to prepare a response, might have a fighting chance against me. I want you to at least make it more challenging for me since this is too easy. Assuming you feel you are superior enough and ready to handle a true debate with me with only the honest truth, then follow proper debating technique.
In a debate, the person making a claim (in your case, claims of superiority) has the responsibility to prove that claim and disprove all challenges that come your way. Since I did not make any claims, there is no responsibility for me to prove or disprove anything. I never claimed ABAs were superior to FOBs. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. It does not make someone better or worse, just different. Why is it so difficult for you to accept that? I know you and other FOBs have tried to put me on the defensive. Nice try! I will give you credit for that much, but improper debating technique. It too bad the Mickey Mouse School you attended never taught you proper debating technique. Don’t you have enough confidence to use proper debating technique, or are you just all talk? Time for you to huddle up with your FOB friends and try to prepare an intelligent response. If you are the example of superior FOB, then God help FOBs. Your vitriolic posts have been an embarrassment to other FOBs. You think you will be showing your superiority anytime soon? Do you have enough confidence to accept the truth? A few examples of FOB success do not represent all FOBs, just like examples of FOB failures do not represent all FOBs. You must be pretty desperate to use a few examples of FOB success and somehow make the stretch that they represent all FOBs.
As I stated to Proud Chinese, I’m happy when Asians are successful regardless if they are an ABA or FOB. Unlike you, I don’t look at success in this world as a Zero Sum Gain. There is enough room in this world for every Asian to achieve success and happiness as they define it. I just pity you as you continue to add to what you are to compensate for your own insecurities. Your constant need for self-affirmation relative to ABAs, your vitriol, your selfishness and need for one-upsmanship, your narrow definition of success just to make you feel better about yourself, just shows that after all these years, you still wallow in the shadows of ABAs, as true happiness and earned respect evades you.
Proud ABA
Monday, November 12, 2001 at 12:18:39 (PST)
This is so stupid!
If you're born in America, any insult to the (and I hate the term FOB--it just sounds so insulting!) Asian Americans not born in America is an insult to your entire lineage of ancestors, parents and grandparents.
If you're not born in America, any insults tossed at the American-born Asians are insults aimed directly at your own children, nieces and nephews, and all your future descendants.
So...I hope that I am not the only one who thinks that spreading my own fecal matter on myself and my entire lineage from past to future is a cool thing.
In fact, that's stupid!
MLK
Monday, November 12, 2001 at 10:40:07 (PST)
1st Class Fob:
First off, learn to read. I didn't say that I was *planning* to get my JD, but rather, that I was in the process of doing so. Secondly, what makes you think that I am not attending a top 20 school? The fact that you made that presumption because I am an ABA and therefore must not be as smart only speaks to your own lack of intelligence.
JD's are a dime a dozen b/c most people go into law school without even having a passion for law. Thus, they have to get other degrees to make their JD mean something *to them*. But you're right, these people get weeded out early and don't even make it to the top 20. I take it you're one of them?
I was lucky enough to have been raised in a wealthy neighborhood--mostly b/c my dad has worked so hard. being reasonably privileged my entire life, i don't feel a need to flaunt my money, b/c i am comfortable with who i am. what really annoys me, though--and i hate to make generalizations but it's true--are asian families moving into neighboring towns or sometimes even into my own town, usu. taiwanese or even cantonese, flashing all that they've got. again, coming from a privileged background myself, i don't find them annoying b/c i am jealous. i find them annoying b/c it's so embarassing that they have to announce their status as "new money" to the entire neighborhood. show some class!
my dad was an immigrant as well. and he has told me stories of insecure ABAs at his high school who lacked a sense of self-identity and therefore hated on FOB's. the similarities between you and my dad, however, end there. (thank god!) my dad did not grow to be bitter into a bitter man. he did not decide to become successful for the sole reason of showing that he is better than them. instead, my dad stepped back and looked at the situation. he recognized where the true oppression was coming from, and he became one of the founders of the asian american studies departement at u.c. berkeley--to educate asian americans, to allow us to understand one another so that we can work together to fight for social justice. today, he urges my brother and i to give back to the community as well.
my brother and i view my father with the utmost respect because of the values that he has taught us, his integrity, and the fact that he is never petty--with his money or his arguments. your kids may only be 5 and 8 now, but i suggest you reevaluate your values in the near future, before your kids become old enough to be disgusted (or ashamed) by the type of man their father is.
another fob: check out the a.a. top professionals page. many of them were born in the united states. to assist us in truly answering your question, though, please give you perspective on how success should be measured.
penelope
Sunday, November 11, 2001 at 17:40:34 (PST)
1st Class FOB,
You know, I'm really beginning to think you are actually parodying a FOB. A white male trying to make it seem as tho' Asians are math and science 'geeks' and care about nothing but $$$. But I'll still try to take you in all seriousness, regardless.
Quite frankly, yes, I do enjoy 'studying the droppings of old white goats feeding on the droppings of older white goats from dead civilisations.' And you must too, since you're a lawyer and we all know that law is more or less a study of jurisprudence, statutes, and precedents. Legal study, as I'm sure you know, is steeped in tradition, tradition, and more tradition. Except, of course, that you guys actually make money at it.
BTW, as far as the money goes, yes, those who pursue academia know it's peanuts. It's not like we go into the field expecting to make $$$ because as it is, many English majors go into law or management consultancy knowing academia pays crap. (About half of my undergrads in English at Oxford University go into law.) And there are lots of folks with doctorates who decide to enter the 'real world' and end up making much more than they can imagine--because they can't find a job in academia! Some are happy with the decision, others are not.
(FYI, those at good public and private universities in the U.S. can command six-digit salaries: in other words, they're not exactly standing in line waiting for their welfare check before heading home to their tenement flat.)
Lastly, I'm not sure your reasoning about peasants not leaving 'brilliant genes' works: sorry, but this doesn't quite cut the mustard. There are LOTS of immigrants who came to this country with virtually nothing whose descendants have become very successful. Just look at today's famous African-Americans, many of whom had ancestors who came to this country as slaves. Don't forget too that the Jews who came here penniless in the 19th century now have descendants taking up a great share of spots at the Ivies and other prestigious universities.
Asian Dominatrix
Sunday, November 11, 2001 at 14:00:01 (PST)
Another FOB,
Here are some famous ABAs:
Margaret Cho
Matt Fong
Wendy Gramm
Daniel Inouye
Andrea Jung (OK, she's Canadian born)
George Takei
Kristi Yamaguchi
Asian Dominatrix
Sunday, November 11, 2001 at 13:20:18 (PST)
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