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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
WHAT FOBs THINK OF AMERICAN-BORN ASIANS
y FOBs we mean anyone who has ever been called an FOB. -- "fresh-off-the-boat", anyone not born here. In other words, half the AA population. Even the 2 million AA who immigrated as kids and speak English like -- or in some cases, better than -- native-born Americans rarely escape the sting of being dismissed by American-Born Asians (ABAs) based on real or imagined differences.
The stereotype of the hopeless FOB who just doesn't get American culture is all too familiar. But intra-Asian prejudice is a two-way street.
No less insulting are the images held by FOBs. ABAs are the descendants of the lowliest of peasants forced to flee their homelands to become indentured servants, sniff some FOBs. Born and bred to accept second-class status in a white society, sneer others. Slackers who don't know the meaning of ambition and sacrifice -- and who lack the guts to do anything about it in any case.
FOBs run the socio-economic gamut. A significant minority (perhaps a tenth) are highly successful trans-Pacific business families seeking a safe haven for their fortunes. The vast majority are engineers, scientists, physicians and academics braving the uncertainties of new lives for a chance to work hard for more money and better opportunities. A few are refugees and illegals risking their lives to escape hopeless, grinding poverty.
It's safe to say few FOBs feel in any respect disadvantaged relative to American-born Asians. In fact, given a dozen years most do as well or better than ABAs financially, if not socially. They can be excused, then, for harboring some less-than-flattering assessments of ABAs. By the same token, in their struggle to acculturate, FOBs often come to appreciate the trails blazed by the ABS, or at least, by their ancestors.
Assuming you're FOB or straddling the FOB-ABA fence, what's your image of ABAs? Let's hear the good as well as the bad.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
(Updated
Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:38:55 AM)
All this bickering on the ABA and
non ABA reminds me of the original
series (TOS) Star Trek epsiode in which
the Enterprise comes upon an alien
civilization in which two people
each white on one side and black
on the other side are at war.
When Captain Kirk ask why they are
at war, they reply the one side is
black on the right and white on
the left while the other is
vice versa. At the end of the
episode, when each side has destroyed
the other and only two individuals
remain, Kirk says is it such a pity
that all the two have left is their hate for each other. This
is 1st class FOB and ABA.
Star Trek TOS has much to teach us
Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 21:18:34 (PST)
Can someone please tell me the name of at least one successful ABA comparable to Dr. Ho, Charles Wang, Jerry Yang, Steve Kim, and etc.?
Another FOB
Friday, November 09, 2001 at 16:12:18 (PST)
Proud ABA,
Take my lunch money while making fun of my accent?
More projection on your part? The ABA kids I grew up with didn't have the nerve to insult me to my face, much less try anything as daring as taking my lunch money. They showed their superiority by standing around in groups and snickering from a safe distance. The only time one of them got up the nerve to yell "FOB" at me, I used my good old FOB martial arts skills to smash his nose with my left heel and send him sprawling on his ass. The ABA also showed their superiority by doing tricks with their skateboards instead of engaging in FOB activities like math and science. Now they show their superiority by living very very close to each other in houses with about 5 feet of yard between them. I'm really smarting about that, let me tell you.
Still haven't found the names of any brilliant or super-successful ABA? Better luck in your next attempt at contributing to a discussion.
Asian Dom,
I've enjoyed your posts on other pages. You are obviously one of the smarter, better educated ABA. Which is precisely why you make such a wonderful Exhibit 2 to my case in chief: the ABA female who devotes her life to studying the droppings of old white goats feeding on the droppings of older white goats from dead civilizations. Don't worry. Knowing what that field pays, you will never have to suffer anything like the vulgar materialism that has obviously made me such a bore. You lucky bugger!
Oh, and that proud young ABA woman planning on getting her JD,
Don't bother unless you're planning on getting you JD from a top 20 law school and are planning on being in the top 20%. Otherwise you will make peanuts and be miserable doing scutwork. JDs are a dime a dozen, no brilliance there. That's why I made sure to get the right undergrad degrees and an MBA to make my JD worth something.
By the way, you all seem to have missed the main point of my original post. The old wave of Asian immigrants (who are mostly dead now as they came mostly between 1850 and 1910) were peasants and did not leave brilliant genes to their ABA descendants. The most brilliant Asian genes came with the most recent wave of immigrants arriving since 1970. The children of these post-1969 immigrants too will obviously have better genes though it will take them some time to reach maturity. My kids, for example, are only 5 and 8.
1st Class FOB
Saturday, November 10, 2001 at 09:18:24 (PST)
This discussion group should have a history lesson on immigration "wave theory". It goes that the first wave of any immigrant group are always the from the highest education, economic, and social backgrounds. All subsequent "wave" of immigration from that group will come from lower education, economic, and social background.
All immigrants to USA shore work harder in general because they think that there is no social "safety net" to catch them if they fall. Their children who are able to assimilate into the culture better, know otherwise and realise the "lifestyle" they want can be achieved through more efficient methods.
But this is more of a class issue in this discussion group. You are trying to compare recent "high" class FOB, due to recent economic instability in Asia, to descendents of "middle" class FOB that arrived about 20 years ago.
Social-economic movement is America is not that great. Most American families within a generation remain in the same social-economic group. Relatively few move on step up or down in that time frame. And a minisule amount can move drastically either direction in that time frame.
I'm just dumbfounded by this discussion, because everyone in American is a descendent of a FOB. Even the Native American's immigrated here.
It would make more sense to have the title "Rich FOB's views on Poorer FOB's"
AC dropout
Friday, November 09, 2001 at 11:37:14 (PST)
The only distinguishing trait between FOBs and ABAs is the accent, which can be a point for discrimination. Apart from that, you don't look any different. As I see it, I'd prefer to hang around someone who works hard and exhibit humility rather than an arrogant show pony. Some people in this forum are just far too up themselves that they warrant a call to the local proctologist. Just remember your roots people.
FOP for 20 years, Oz.
Friday, November 09, 2001 at 09:34:52 (PST)
I've been observing the fighting between ABA and First Class FOB and see that both of you while trying to state your points are really creating discord in the AA community.
Firstly I would like to say that many ABA do not respect FOBs and this is primarily due to some ABA's total acceptance (without analytical or deep thinking) of American society's stereotypes against Asians and AA. I see this everyday where a younger ABA would try to disassociate him or herself from a FOB out of embarrassment.
Having said that, secondly, many FOB's are extremely hard-working and many are indeed very successful people in the business world and that includes the world of Finance. Despite the stereotypes, many FOB's speak unaccented English, have the social abilities to interact with BOTH THE WHITE AMERICAN AND THEIR ANCESTRAL ASIAN SOCIETIES, etc.,
Thirdly, ABA can also be successful people however their success is not as obvious for the simple demographic reason that most ABA have not yet reached maturity. I also agree that ABA should be CONFIDENT about who they are and those ABA who pander to be "white" will have a more difficult time simply by the fact that one is imitating someone else and therefore devoting less time to the things that ultimately counts --- ideas, innovation, social skills (which crosses all cultural lines), etc.,
As the world economy widens and gets wealthier, different cultures will play greater roles than they use to. Having multicultural understanding combined with excellent product/services will make the difference between a sale or no-sale. I see both FOB and ABA having much to contribute in this respect since the majority of FOB and ABA have respect and understanding of more than one culture. Let's not be shamed by ignorant people telling us that we need to be this or that to be Americans. DAMN, WE ALL ARE AMERICANS HERE and let's not forget that. And for these other Americans trying to make trouble, you know, ironically, you are doing the same thing that others have done to your grandmother, grandfather, etc., except now the world has changed --- ie it is becoming more and more important to be multicultural so to be monocultural and disrespectful of other people is a DISADVANTAGE IN THE MARKETPLACE and if this continues, America will decline.
AsianGuy
Friday, November 09, 2001 at 08:55:17 (PST)
First Class FOB,
I'm not here to argue with you about whether FOBs or ABAs are superior. It could well be that you've only met 2nd class ABAs and, as such, you're entitled to your opinion. As for me, I've met all sorts: high-achieving ABAs, low-achieving ABAs, high-achieving FOBs, low-achieving FOBs.
However, I must take issue with your denigration of those in 'community services.'
In a post to Proud ABA, you told him/her that s/he is 'the archetype of the ABA with the ghetto mentality and limited imigination [imagination?] who typically end up working at places like community service centers....and welfare offices.'
In a more recent post, you sneer that proud ABA is 'smarting at seeing so many newcomers earning more money and respect than you and your community services crowd.' Proud ABA, as you put it, is an 'underachieving bore.'
If you're really a first-class FOB, you would appreciate what those in community services do. There are many I know who've graduated from top academic institutions (i.e., Stanford and U. of Chicago) who chose to give to their community selflessly: they're the ones who could have easily taken on a legal, business, or medical career but felt that they wanted to help others on a more immediate level. Let me tell you, there are a number of FOBs who probably would not be able to make it here were it not for the efforts of those willing to help and reach out.
To me, those in community services and those involved in helping out folks on welfare are truly noble, first-class beings who've chosen to prize empathy and humanity over sheer greed. There are many of us who'd rather be a Mother Teresa than a soulless Donald Trump or Michael Milken. Or whichever new-success-turned bankrupt.
So congrats on your success. Just don't forget that there are other measures of success which can't be measured on an abacus, slide-ruler, or calculator. If you do, you alone are the true 'underachieving bore.'
Asian Dominatrix
Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 15:49:40 (PST)
First Class FOB:
Did the ABA children take your lunch money too while making fun of your accent? How sad! Maybe one day you might be mature enough to get pass those painful childhood experiences. I pity you since you are reduced to spewing vitriol on a website to make up for your pain.
I see you have copied some of my phrases and words, adapting it to your post. I consider copying and paraphrasing a sincere compliment. Obviously, you don’t have enough intelligence to write your own original content. Time for you to consult 15 more FOBs and your ESL teacher to help you out. I’m laughing at how hard you are trying to keep up with me. Do you think your FOB friends can help you write your own original content too?
There are hundreds of sections for ABAs and this one section for FOBs. Goldsea made this one section to toss people like you a bone. This section is not titled FOB monologue only. I mock at your self-proclaimed superiority since you don’t even have enough confidence to handle a dialogue with ABAs. Poor simpleton! Still second class after all this time. Maybe you should get 15 more degrees so it can give you some true confidence to debate me or other ABAs with only the honest truth. Otherwise in your current state, you really need the protection of a monologue since a true dialogue is too much for you.
I’ve been consistent with what I said from my first post. There is nothing hypocritical here. I respect people until they give me reasons not to respect them. I enjoy humbling self-delusional FOBs like you because it’s too easy to do so. I reserve my respect for those FOBs who actually deserve respect. Since you started off with your first post disrespecting ABAs, why should you get any respect from ABAs? I am very comfortable with my Asian identity. It actually works to my advantage in my firm. I’m acculturated enough to mix and mingle with all Americans and still have enough Asian identity whereby all the Asian clientele is referred to me. I have no delusions about who I am. I am Asian and quite proud of it. Also, I don’t care what White people think of me. Heck, I manage some white people too. I don’t look at color to predetermine my level of respect for someone. When they respect me, they get respect in return.
Obviously you do not have enough confidence to handle the truth. I’ve already answered your original post, but you were too busy smarting to comprehend my response. Let me put it in easier terms so even a simpleton like you can understand. There are FOBs who are successful just like there are FOBs struggling. To parse out only the successful segment of the FOB population in only selected industries, without looking at the whole picture shows how weak your position is. Are you really that desperate that you are blinded to the whole truth?
It’s too easy to pick apart weak FOBs like you. After all, you are not even mature enough to get pass those negative childhood experiences haunting you to this day. You better consult many more FOBs to help you with your response so you can actually write some original content instead of just copying and paraphrasing me. I’m flattered that you chose to use some of the same words and phrases I used. It just shows you are a follower, a position you are uses to, and not superior enough to write your own original content.
Proud ABA
Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 14:57:33 (PST)
I think there's FOJ (Jet!) and ABA in everyone of the reader of this site. It is a matter of degree.
For example: me. I came to the US when I was 12. I was raised with "get smart", "i love jeannie" and other TV show.
I have no problem relating to US born American (skin color is irrelevent!). Yet I enjoy reading chinese KuFung novels and movies. I can speak English and Chinese. I enjoy a big juicy burger yet I love dimsum.
I believe there's a bunch of readers have similar backgrounds. So am I a FOJ or ABA? 50-50? 30-70? or 70-30?
I guess I am 50-50 when I talked to non-Asian, 30-70 to FOJ and 70-30 to ABA.
Of course, ABA will more likely be 10-90 ratio. The 10% is from your heritage. and vis versa for new immigrants.
To Proud ABA and 1st class FOB. We can learn from each other. I definitely learned about American culture from my ABA friends and learned about the latest Asian trend from my FOJ friends. I also enjoy sharing my point of view to them. Life is more refreshing that way!!
so, relax! Have a coke!
2020
Thursday, November 08, 2001 at 13:32:23 (PST)
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